Nyheter:
  Fornavn:  Etternavn:
Logg inn
Avansert søk
Etternavn
Hva er nytt?
Etterlysninger
  • Bilder
  • Dokumenter
  • Gravsteiner
  • Album
    Alle media
    Kirkegårder
    Steder
    Notater
    Datoer og jubileer
    Kalender
    Rapporter
    Kilder
    Arkiver
    DNA tester
    Statistikk
    Bytt Språk
    Bokmerker
    Ta kontakt
    Be om brukerkonto

    Del Skriv ut Legg til bokmerke

    Egbert III "the Great", King of Wessex[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]

    Mann 784 - Ett 838  (54 år)


    Personlig informasjon    |    Kilder    |    Hendelseskart    |    Alle    |    PDF

    • Navn Egbert III "the Great", King of Wessex 
      Kallenavn the Great 
      Fødsel 784  Wessex, , England Finn alle personer med hendelser på dette stedet  [1, 9, 10
      Kjønn Mann 
      Død Ett 19 Nov 838  Winchester, Wessex, England Finn alle personer med hendelser på dette stedet  [4, 11, 12, 13
      Begravelse Winchester Cathedral, Winchester, Hampshire, England Finn alle personer med hendelser på dette stedet  [14
      Notater 
      • Eighth King of all Britain, claimed title of Bretwalda. Reigned 802-839. In 800 at the decease of King Brithric, Egbert was called by the voice of his countrymen to assume the Government of Wessex, and he subsequently succeeded in reducing all the Kingdoms of the Heptarchy under his sway. His reign, a long and glorious one, is memorable for the great victories he achieved over the Danes. (See Europäisch Stammtafeln Bund II tafel 58.)

        Egbert laid the foundations for the ascendancy of Wessex among the English kingdoms. At first an unsuccessful claimant to the Wessex crown, he finally became King in 802. Egbert defeated the Mercian King Beornwulf at Ellandune (825) and briefly (828-29) held the kingdom of Mercia itself. He was also recognized as King in Kent, Surrey, Sussex,and Essex and received the nominal submission of Northumbria. The later years of his reign were marked by frequent Danish raids on England. The male line of kings descend from him to Edward theConfessor and the female line to the present time.

        The official male line of descent for the British Royalty begins with Egbert and concludes with Edward the Confessor. The female line extends to the present time. Egbert's wife, Eadburh, was a daughter of Theodoric IV (Makhir) Aymeri of Autun, shown elsewhere in this genealogy.

        The death of Egbert looks like it took place in 839, as there are many ref. refering to his reign from 802-839. "Egbert dies leaving a greater Wessex 839". King Egbert of Wessex has died, ending a 37-year reign in which he reshaped...


        Stewart Baldwin says: The "orthodox" genealogy of Egbert makes him a son of Ealhmund, son of Eafa, son of Eoppa, son of Ingild, brother of king Ine of Wessex (688-726). The generations prior to Ine are a separate matter, and this posting will be concerned with the generations listed above. Egbert's father Ealhmund is not otherwise identified in any source from the ninth century, but it has been frequently noted that there was a king of Kent of that name (ruling ca. 784) who would make a chronologically plausible father. If you make the reasonable assumption that the two Ealhmunds were one and the same, this gives Egbert a known (but extremely obscure) father. Although this assumption cannot be considered certain, it does seem at least probable, so let us assume this identity for the remainder of the posting.

        Some believe that the pedigree back to a brother of Ine has been fabricated. It must be admitted that the evidence for Egbert's pedigree is not so good as we would prefer to have. However, in my opinion, the case for a fabricated pedigree has been overstated. If the pedigree is fabricated, what evidence is there that this was the case? The argument that Ealhmund was a king of Kent (and therefore not of the West Saxon dynasty) is not a good one, for the Kentish monarchy was very unstable during the entire period, and had a succession of kings that were either of obscure origin, or were princes from foreign dynasties. During the same period, the dynasties of both Essex and Mercia had supplied kings to Kent. If Essex and Mercia could do it, why not Wessex? A prince from Wessex obtaining the Kentish throne would just be one more example of what was going on there, both before and after the reign of Ealhmund.

        WAS THE PEDIGREE FABRICATED?

        So, what direct evidence is there that the generations between Egbert and Ingild (or some of them) were fabricated? To my knowledge, there isn't any. The well known fact that SOME of the generations (i.e.,
        pre-Cerdic) in this genealogy were fabricated does not constitute evidence that THESE generations were. However, for the sake of argument, let us assume for the moment that the generations back to Ingild were fabricated, in order to give Egbert a relationship to Ine that he did not have, and let us see where such an argument would lead.

        The first question would then be, when was the pedigree written down for the first time? In principle, it could have been written down any time between the accession of Egbert in 802 (since it would be unlikely to have been written down earlier), and the reign of Egbert's grandson Alfred the great (the age of the earliest manuscripts giving the genealogy). Now, 802 is only 76 years after the death of Ine, which is pretty close to living memory. One of the basic facts about the fabrication of genealogies is that the earlier the fabricated generations are, the easier it is to get by with it without being caught. Fabricating such a link during the time of Egbert without being caught would have been very difficult, so if the genealogy is fabricated, then we would almost have to assume that it was written much later, say in the reign of Alfred, and even then, it would not be that far outside living memory.

        If we make that assumption, we run into another problem, that of motive. The obvious motive for a phony genealogy is to strengthen claims to the throne on the face of possible opposition. However, by the time of Alfred, the dynasty of Egbert was already quite secure on the throne. Of course, they were in danger from the Danes, but that was an external threat. By the time of Alfred, Egbert and his sons and four grandsons had occupied the throne of Wessex for six consecutive reigns, and the only other claimants to the throne who are known were also descendants of Egbert. (Faking a genealogy only helps if the other claimants don't have the same descent.) Of course, these arguments do not prove that the pedigree is genuine, but they do serve to illustrate how inconclusive the argument for fabrication is.

        WHAT WAS THE KENTISH CONNECTION?

        In addition to the probability that Egbert's father was king of Kent, the other evidence of a Kentish connection is onomastic, as there were two kings of Kent named Egbert. In what one might call the "revised orthodox" genealogy of Egbert, his patrilineal line of descent is kept exactly as in the orthodox genealogy, and a marriage with a Kentish princess is hypothsised (with differences in the details, depending on who is doing the hypothsising), in order to explain Ealhmund's reign as king of Kent and Egbert's first name.

        Another possibility that has been mentioned is a patrilineal Kentish descent for Egbert (abandoning the "orthodox" genealogy). If this is supposed to mean a patrilineal descent from the kings who ruled Kent in the seventh and early eighth centuries, then I think that this can be considered very unlikely. The reason for this (in addition to the lack of supporting evidence) is that if it were true, it would make Egbert (and Alfred) a direct male line descendant of both Aethelbert, the first Christian Anglo-Saxon king, and Hengist, the mythical (but real to people of the ninth century) first Anglo-Saxon invader of Britain. I consider it unlikely in the extreme that Alfred would have abandoned such a politically useful genealogy if there were any truth to it.

        So, what of the "revised orthodox" genealogy. It is plausible enough, but there are other possibilities. Given the chronology of his reign, Egbert of Wessex was probably born during the reign of Egbert II of Kent (764-79). If Ealhmund had been an exiled West Saxon prince seeking his fortune in the turbulent Kentish politics of the time, naming his son after the king of Kent might be a politically astute move, even if there were no genealogical reason for doing so. (If this is true, Egbert II of Kent might have even been the Godfather of Egbert of Wessex.) (In fact, we see something similar a couple of generations later, when Aethelwulf of Wessex gave two of his sons, Aethelbald and Aethelred, the names of previous Mercian kings, despite the fact that there is no evidence for a Mercian descent. Could Aethelwulf have been giving his sons names which would be acceptable to the people of Mercia?) This is admittedly speculative, but it does show that there is a plausible scenario which has no genealogical connection to the earlier kings of Kent.

        CONCLUSIONS

        The following two conclusions are my main opinions on the matter. Given the sometimes heated arguments which have been made on this subject in the past, I suspect that others may have different opinions.

        1. The "orthodox" genealogy of Egbert back to Ingild is most likely correct, although it would certainly be nice if we had better evidence to that effect.

        2. The suggestion that Egbert was a descendant of the kings of Kent in the female line, while plausible enough, is too weakly supported to be regarded as anything more than one possibility.

        Stewart Baldwin
      Person ID I55447  AH1
      Sist endret 30 Mar 2024 

      Far Ealhmund, King of Kent,   f. 758, Wessex, , England Finn alle personer med hendelser på dette stedetd. 786 (Alder 28 år) 
      Slektskap biologisk 
      Mor NN Æthelbertsdatter, Queen of Kent,   f. Ca 759, Wessex, , England Finn alle personer med hendelser på dette stedet 
      Slektskap biologisk 
      Famile ID F19707  Gruppeskjema  |  Familiediagram

      Familie Eadburh (Redburh Q, Redburga, Ida),   f. uppsk 785, Wessex, , England Finn alle personer med hendelser på dette stedet 
      Barn 
       1. Athelstan, King of Kent,   f. 800   d. 852 (Alder 52 år)  [Far: biologisk]  [Mor: biologisk]
      +2. Æthelwulf (Ethelwulf), King of Wessex,   f. Ca 806, France Finn alle personer med hendelser på dette stedetd. 13 Jan 858, England Finn alle personer med hendelser på dette stedet (Alder 52 år)  [Far: biologisk]  [Mor: biologisk]
       3. Princess Editha,, of England   d. 871  [Far: biologisk]  [Mor: biologisk]
      Famile ID F19706  Gruppeskjema  |  Familiediagram
      Sist endret 14 Okt 2012 

    • Hendelseskart
      Link til Google MapsFødsel - 784 - Wessex, , England Link til Google Earth
      Link til Google MapsDød - Ett 19 Nov 838 - Winchester, Wessex, England Link til Google Earth
      Link til Google MapsBegravelse - - Winchester Cathedral, Winchester, Hampshire, England Link til Google Earth
       = Link til Google Earth 

    • Kilder 
      1. [S2995] Rønneberg, Warren "Skip", Rønneberg-2000, (California: Oct 2000).

      2. [S2987] Ashley, Mike, Ashley-1999, (Carroll & Graf Publishers, Inc. New York: 1999), p 298, 468 (Troverdighet: 3).

      3. [S2989] Hidle, Johannes & Løland, Jacob Sverre, Hidle-1972, (1972: Dreyer Aksjeselskap, Stavanger).

      4. [S2983] Ferguson, June, Ferguson-1998, (14 Jun 1998).

      5. [S2984] Fettes, Ian, Fettes-2001, (Feb 2001: Australia) (Troverdighet: 3).
        Baldwin, Stewart. Posting to Gen-Medieval. (sbald@auburn.campus.nci.net). 25 July 2000.

      6. [S2984] Fettes, Ian, Fettes-2001, (Feb 2001: Australia) (Troverdighet: 3).
        Tompsett, Brian. Royal and Noble Genealogy. (http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk). Oct 1996 and later. Ref. (Asc 800,823,825,827,828,836;NSE,X 209-210;Searle, 342-43).(See:Harold W. Smith, Saxon England, Gens. 9-13. This ref. omits Cutha(1-6) in early portion of pedigree.). Also see Ref: Academic AmericanEncyclopedia.

      7. [S3001] Weis, Frederick Lewis, Weis-1992, (Genealogical Publishing Co, Baltimore: 1992), p 2 (Troverdighet: 3).

      8. [S2993] Stuart, Roderick W, Stuart-2002, (Genealogical Publishing Co: 2002 4th Edition), p 126 (Troverdighet: 3).

      9. [S2983] Ferguson, June, Ferguson-1998, (14 Jun 1998) (Troverdighet: 3).
        Shows 775.

      10. [S2984] Fettes, Ian, Fettes-2001, (Feb 2001: Australia) (Troverdighet: 3).
        Tompsett, Brian. Royal and Noble Genealogy. (http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk). Oct 1996 and later. Shows 775.

      11. [S2995] Rønneberg, Warren "Skip", Rønneberg-2000, (California: Oct 2000) (Troverdighet: 3).
        Year only.

      12. [S2989] Hidle, Johannes & Løland, Jacob Sverre, Hidle-1972, (1972: Dreyer Aksjeselskap, Stavanger) (Troverdighet: 3).
        Shows 839.

      13. [S2984] Fettes, Ian, Fettes-2001, (Feb 2001: Australia) (Troverdighet: 3).
        Shows 4 Feb 839.

      14. [S2984] Fettes, Ian, Fettes-2001, (Feb 2001: Australia).